Submitted by Heather on Sun, 06/16/2002 - 00:46
Posted in
When a leader is no longer leading, but is instead demanding, bullying, and being unreasonable, it is time to remove that leader. We (the payers) have done that as of 4PM GMT.
Nick (aka Tempest) and Cian (aka Graham) were reduced to player status by a majority of the players, and as a result have opted out of continuing to play.
I am sorry they chose to accept this judgement this way, but their leaving is of their own choice because of "creative differences."
So effective immediately this game is officially GM-less and all plot, universal, or charcter issues are open to majority vote and open discussion.
The first effect of this is the reinstatement of Alice (Black Jem) as a player to the game.
May God have mercy on our souls....
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Wrapping up Season One
Okay It seems there is some confusion...
No. You do not have to log in each time, it should log you in each time you visit. There are a couple of things to make sure it works properly...
1) Use http://latenightgames.com/labynight/forum as the link to the forum. If you have old links to labynight.friedbaloney.com they may not work any more.
2) Clear out your cookies. In Internet Explorer 6.0, use the "Tools" menu choose Internet Options. Press the button that says "Delete Cookies". Close all your browser windows, then open one new one (in that order). Log into La By Night, and check the box...It should log you every time.
3) If you visited Zion 3 at any time you should go back there and let it set a new cookie for you. That should fix any lingering cookie problems.
Is that more helpful? Sometimes I forget that not all the world is a genious (like me) and that some people need more explicit instructions (Lather. Rinse. Repeat as needed.)
Sorry for the confusion...really. :roll:
Stream-of-Consciousness or Revision
Heather and I are butting heads again. We always will, I suppose. Here's the thing:
She believes in writing and editing only. That is, when she writes, she's a proponent for sticking with what was written the first time. If I may put words in her mouth by stealing words from the movie Naked Lunch, "re-writing betrays your innermost thoughts." (Er, paraphrased.) Heather does support the occasional rewrite for clarity, so don't let me cloud your opinion of her. She's not a Nazi about it. I, however, am.
I believe in revision. Revision, revision, revision. I rarely leave a sentence untouched. Anyone who's read my MSN-speak, or most of my posts, for that matter, knows that I can be pretty damn incoherent. Revision is the key to better writing. Sometimes I read a piece of my "finished" writing and wish I'd revised more than I did. I'm confident that anyone who considers him- or herself a poor writer will improve by practicing revision. I SUCK at writing. I just revise.
There we go, the basic premise of the poll. Which is better? I call Heather's method "stream-of-consciousness," which I must utilize every time I write. But I take it a step further and revise. So do you feel you should leave your first thoughts untouched, thereby maintaining their newborn purity, or do you think you should continue on to revise, possibly losing some of your "good stuff" and, in my opinion, smoothing it out towards perfection?
I'd like to say a couple more things on this subject. It's unfair that I'm the one who gets to post this poll, because Heather might have defended her position better. I hope I've shown the good points of her argument. She is correct that excessive revision can ruin a work of art.
Now for my evidence:
In revising this post, I changed "That is, when she writes, she's a proponent for sticking with what was written, what came out the first time" to "That is, when she writes, she's a proponent for sticking with what was written the first time." Neither choice represents great writing, but the latter is less redundant.
And "Heather does support the occasional changing of words for clarity" has become "Heather does support the occasional rewrite for clarity."
And, finally, ironically, "but the latter uses less words. It's less redundant" is now "but the latter is less redundant."
Wrapping up Season One
It's interesting that Jeffrey cited these examples of 'rewriting'. All of these are things I would consider perfectly valid 'adjustments', since they don't alter the original meaning of the sentence. They are merely tidying. I tend not to have to tidy much when I write, but I do take the time to review within the input box of the chatroom before I hit 'enter', thus eliminating some of these sorts of things before they hit the public eye.
And may I say that I don't argue that everyone must follow my preferred method of writing. Some of you can't survive without revision, and therefore I say go for it. However, I'd like to ask you to read your original work with an unbiased eye to see if it really requires heavy editing. Perhaps only minor tweaking will produce the desired result without radically altering the original subsconcious component.
Let me cite a further example of Jeffrey's revisions... This version is in a post which is already up on the game board - the first paragraph was from Tash's point of view, which I've left as a lead-in:
Now this is the version as it was input into the chatroom. This version has only been slightly edited by me for grammar and spelling:
Now, I'll agree that the version that ended up on the game board does have more polish to it... but it seems to me that there's a change in tone from the original. Sam sounded more at ease - friendlier - in the spontaneous version. Maybe that's just me, and maybe that's a feeling that Jeffrey didn't want Sam to portray, hence the alterations.
But I find that if I let Tash speak through my subconscious, she sometimes does things that I never expected. And that leads me to have to work out where to go from there. This whole sideline of Tash's battle with her supressed memories has really come about by accident, due to a casual line I threw in during my first Season Two post. It's been followed up by the entirely unexpected fight with Sorrow. If I'd looked at my early stuff and decided that I should revise those feelings out of it, there'd be a whole sub-plot that would never have eventuated.
But all of this is purely my personal opinion. These are my reasons for sticking with the 'stream of consciousness' style of writing, introducing only minor cosmetic changes for ease of reading. I know some of you like to ensure that everything you submit is as perfect as you can make it. I'd just like to be sure that you realise that it may mean you miss out on opportunities to explore aspects of your character that otherwise would not come out.
*Packs up soapbox and saunters away, whistling.*
Wrapping up Season One
As an addendum, I'd just like to point out that the previous post was typed directly into the edit box and was submitted directly without revision. :D
Wrapping up Season One
I'm glad you piped in, Heather. As of this writing, you're stream-of-consciousness style seems to be winning in the polls.
Hm. Perhaps had I revised more *ahem* I would have built a stronger case. :lol: Next time, I'll set down my arguments and return to them later...and revise some more.
Revise, revise, revise.
Just go with it
I may not be the best person to ask this, but I have a pretty good idea which I prefer, because it's what I do. For some people, endless revision probably seems like a good idea, but for me, I think it's too much like second guessing yourself. I honestly don't think I have ever really revised a post to this board in any forum. Occasionally, maybe, I have spelling or grammar errors that I can't write off, but other than that, I always write "stream-of-consciousness" style. I figure, if I allow myself to start revising, I will never be satisfied enough to put anything out there. I have taken my fair share of writing courses, by the way, and most teachers are members of the revision, revision, revision school of thought like our friend Jeffrey here. Ok, so, as a future educator, I have to say, I just can't agree. Unless you read your stuff and see it's a completely incoherent series of meaningless sounds, in writing go with your instincts whenever possible.
I would point out that at some point during the TOT game, I said my npc, Andrew, can still surprise me. This is why. I write him on the fly and therefore, he still manages to do things I don't expect. I bet my choice will surprise you here, Jeffrey, as you seem to think I am a master plot manipulator or something, but I will let you all in on a secret. The ideas I have come up with this season, they have not been that thought out. When I started this subplot of mine, I was just playing it by ear, and I still am. So, why revise?
Also, I know Jeffrey revises like a madman, but I've done a couple of collabs with him, and I think he writes very well on the fly. So, stop dissing your talent, my friend. You are a writer, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Wrapping up Season One
Hear, hear, Kris.
I've done a couple of collaborations with Jeffrey now, too, and I have to agree wholeheartedly with you. His on-the-fly writing is brilliant - but just try telling him that. :?
Wrapping up Season One
I'm into revision. I put down what the muse whispers in my ear. Then he (my muse sounds remarkably like Vin Diesel, all twisted steel and sex appeal) leaves me to my own devices. He gives me the skeleton and I get to fill it in.
But my Vinnie is a jealous muse. Two passes is all he allows me. If I do anything after that, he laughs at me while I watch my brilliant idea disintegrate into unintelligible mush that I have to dump. Then I have to wait for him to visit me again, at his leisure.
I've managed to talk him into a third quick pass for spelling, grammar and punctuation only. I explained about Heather. He said he knew her and that 8 times out of 10 she was right, so...
I vote for revision.
Wrapping up Season One
At least I got one vote. Thanks Sherlynn.
But you know, I'm not upset. :) This wasn't a poll to see who was right as much as a poll to get people thinking about how they form words. I so very much DO accept the outcome, and I'm impressed by anyone who can write well the FIRST TIME.
It's not the case with me, despite the patronizing I've received. I remember when I first came to this site, how I learned that everyone wrote 'REAL TIME.' I was so impressed. I kept commenting how impressed I was. Still am. I must give it to you all. You are wonders to me.
Thanks for taking part in the poll. I must stick to my revising. But it would be interesting if every time i collab with heather I DON'T revise. Just as a fun thing. Hey, I'll be slummin' it. :D
Wrapping up Season One
I'm generally in to stream of consciousness, though have a habit of doing COMPLETE revisions - this even applies to term papers. Though minor revisions do have their place, mainly when the whole stream of consciousness thing gets messed up while not thinking. ("Oh duh, that's right, the helicopter has to set down before you get out.")
Wrapping up Season One
You got two votes Siddy :D
Besides, revision is different to re-writing. While I like the spontanious thing, sometimes it doesn't work out, and sometimes things happen that you're just not settled with.
I think sometimes in collabs you can babble on while trying to get to your point, I like to think that everything I write has purpose and direction. It ADDS something to the piece, to the storyline or characterisation, or build up of mood/place/atmosphere
Sometimes you can't do this off the top of your head - how many times have I had to write spells in advance - and these really DO need revision otherwise they don't sound right.
I like the stream of concious thing, and I have done some good writing in that form that didn't need 'fixing'. If something isn't broken don't fix it - but I think you will always have to revise to some extent, even if it's just a matter of correcting grammatical errors
Wrapping up Season One
That's just the thing, Lou. Jeffrey's not talking about just fixing grammatical errors. He's talking total rewrite. I wholeheartedly agree with fixing up posts... hell, I do it all the time, to my own and everyone else's.
And yes, things like spells obviously need to be worked out in advance, or inserted later. They can't really be invented on the fly. But I think on the whole that you tend to write pretty much off the bat like most of us here.
Wrapping up Season One
It's okay, don't mind me, i'm just stuffed full of wedding cake and exhausted from a two hour drive from Perth to Strathhallan to Glasgow - brain still in neutal...
Wrapping up Season One
Certainly hope you had fun. Though brain in neutral can also be interesting. Not as interesting as brain in reverse, though. :)
Wrapping up Season One
My brain's just gone out to lunch. May have something to do with the bottle of wine I recently consumed. :smilecolros:
Wrapping up Season One
*sigh* I thought I was done with this thread.
Editing is impassionate. It uses the left side of the brain and pleases the technical-minded.
Revision uses the right side of the brain. It satisfies a sense of flow. How does the writing sound when read aloud? Was that the best word I could think of at the time? Did I get my point across, or (as Lou suggested) do I need to clarify?
The truth is, it's hard to separate the two. You might start out editing and end up revising. And while revising, it's hard to keep from editing.
Stream-of consciousness is the "rough draft" stage where you're getting the ideas onto paper. Now that I've put that into words, I realize that we all revise, even Heather. The question here should have involved the quanitity of revision. And Heather's point--still a valid one--is that she'd much rather I turn off that part of the brain, do some major editing and some minor revising, and stick with the original thrust of the piece.
When I collab with her, that's what I will do. Just for you, Heather!
Now quick. Someone put a lock on this thread so I can shut up about it.