Submitted by Allyana on Thu, 01/08/2004 - 23:31
Posted in
Well, I was talking to Adam about Kristen’s latest post (which was great, Kris, btw)
The post showed a more virulent virus than we had thought of, so we got to discuss our views of how the virus would work. How it would affect the characters, will humans be affected in the same way than that demon was? so quickly? so violently?
Oh, and will the virus have a name? :D
Well to summon it up, a number of questions arose and we thought that it would be wise to create a thread to discuss these kind of things.
With any luck we’ll get to have only one virus that we are all happy with, and not several versions of the same virus, as I’m sure there will be if we aren’t more specific.
So... let's get the ball rolling, as Heather said.
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Virus Discussion
Interesting topic. Well, lets look at Kris's post closely, shall we?
The demon was first injected with a pure form of the virus. Naturally, this would have an immediate effect. I assume that Delancre will issue a watered down (but not THAT watered down) version of the test virus.
He could make the affect happen quickly, but Ambrose is a sick son of a bitch from, what Kris made him out to be, who happens to be the kind of guy who loves watching a "car crash", so to speak, happen before his eyes. The man takes pleasure in watching the slow, painful change.
As for he effects of the virus, it varies from personality to personality. The Laos demon happened to be a very peaceful species of demons, and its extreme violent reaction was do to the virus bringing out the traits of the Laos that normally don't exist. Does this make sense?
Well, its 10:40 pm here and that's all I can think of off the top of my head. The more questions we have to answer, the better this virus will be. :D
Virus Discussion
its really late here too, so im only going to add quick quick. The demon was injected with a pure form of the virus, and maybe thats why he went so crazy so fast. If someone caught it through contact with an infected, perhaps the effects take longer to start, and they will not be as drastic. Also, i think the virus was called the Hyde Virus, (i think i remember reading that in the post). wellthats all ive got to say :)
Virus Discussion
Ok, some more thoughts. I remember that Kristin liked the idea of the functionality as a remover of inhibitions. While I'll admit that the disney herbivore-good carnivore-bad subtext is present, a peacefull species like the Laos would be disposed not to do things like bite the heads off kittens.
I suspect that the overall effect on each person will vary based on their various personality traits. It's not likely that everyone who is infected will behave in exactly the same way.
But there are some other things that come up with something like this, namely:
-How is the virus spread?
-What is the incubation period?
-How long is it contagous?
Questions follow, with my thoughts on particular answers at the end.
How needs a slightly more complex answer than we've given so far. The only ones affected by the virus have some form of mystical potential. Ok. So, do those without this kind of potential still become carriers? Vampires are sort of immune to the effects, but I still think the reasoning has to do with more function rather than alive/dead - they are still mystical creatures, after all, and biological life need not be necessary to affect something. Can vampires be carriers as well?
What is the incubation period? When we contract this thing, how long does it take to alter the personality? When it does alter the personality, how long does this take? When does it become contagous? How long does it remain contagous?
By what means is it transmited? Air? Telepathic contact? Physical contact? Fluid exchange?
How can it be detected? Don't just say the personality change - detected in such a way as to ascertain its nature.
Most importantly of all for our purposes - how does one cure it? (I shall assume that to 'is there a cure' the answer is 'yes'). How long does the cure take to take effect?
---------------------------
Now, some thoughts on potential answers.
My thought to let us contorl the spread of this thing is simple. It settles in whatever part of the spirit controls inhibitions and personality. More than that, because of the mystical elements involved in Hyde 232's creation, it must also have access to this part to sustain it.
Hyde 232 takes aproximately one hour to reach a contagous period. It will rely upon parts of the psychic faculty to pass, and only remains contagous for 8-10 hours. Afterwords, the infected individual cannot pass it.
Infection +5 hours is when the incubation is complete, and the first effects on personality begin to show up. On most individuals, corruption should take 2-3 days to set in fully.
Because it settles in mystical parts, this means that vampires can become infected. They will not, however, display the standard symptoms - their inhibitions have already been removed. This also means that the general populace won't be infected. Other brands of demons would also be infectable.[/b]
Virus Discussion
See? That's why I wanted you to start this thread, Adam. :wink:
And of course! Hyde Virus, a very appropriate name if you ask me. I hadnt noticed that, maybe because i was paying more attention to the way it worked. :roll:
Virus Discussion
As for a cure I was thinking of some possible ideas.
Since this is a virus allbeit a mystical one the body should still react to it as a foreign presence and attempt to evict it. So maybe the 'patient' could exhibit similar sorts of behaviour as they would under normal circumstances when fighting a virus? By this I mean fever, nausea, aches and pains, loss of apetite - those sorts of things. I'm not saying that the body's natural defenses could combat such a virus but I'm sure as hell that they'd try! That would also give us a sort of re-occuring feature to work with, so when several characters all suddenly developed this fever along with their 'evil' personas it might become more evident as to what we're fighting.
If this is the case, then maybe if the body 'shutsdown' so to speak, to fight the virus more effectively THIS could be the way to get rid of it. If the virus is a living organism that needs a live host, it would surely depart the infected victim if it thought it's life was about to expire??
Just some thoughts.
Virus Discussion
Ok, I know this is a mystical virus, but it will have to affect our characters in a biological way, so I started to do some research.
I’m not very good at biology, but I did remember that there is a part of our brain that deals with emotions, and inhibitions. The Limbic System.
I thought that the Hyde 232 virus could affect the Limbic System of our characters, and please don’t start telling me we don’t know if demons have such, if they don’t they would have something similar, don’t you think?
Here is what I found. I’m only quoting the parts that seemed more relevant but you can read the whole stuff here:
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/brainsystem/limbic.asp
Well, all of this can be used, don’t you think, of course after bending it to our purposes. And I specially like the idea that females could be more powerfully affected. I think it can serve our purposes (I recommend you girls to read the article there is some interesting stuff about PMS there, relating it to our “bigger” limbic system :wink:)
Now, let’s tackle Adam’s six questions again, but taking into consideration the limbic stuff:
-How does the virus spread?
-By what means is it transmitted?
-What is the incubation period?
-How long is it contagious?
-How can it be detected?
-how is it cured?
There could be more questions, but right now I can't think past those six.
-How does the virus spread?
-By what means is it transmitted?
I found this very interesting, couldn’t it be transmitted by way of a smell? Infected people could exude a certain scent, that would get to the limbic system through the sense of smell. That wouldn’t imply physical contact or fluid exchange but only a certain nearness with the infected person, just enough to pick up their smell.
Why does it only affect mystical creatures I leave to you. And so the incubation time question. :wink:
Edited: Why! It could be a smell that only mystical creatures can pick! dah!
-How long is it contagious?
Well, if we go by this path, the scent could wear off after a few days and after that the infected person wouldn’t be exuding it anymore, and thus contagion wouldn’t be possible.
-How can it be detected?
Apart from the changes in personality, the smell thing could be a tell tale. Athought not actively infecting, a certain scent could linger on infected peple that could be detected anyway.
Or a certain saline or acid quality on their skins, remnant of their previously exuding the virus.
Or both.
-How is it cured?
By a smelly vaccine? Just another smell? A smelly potion? :D
Well, this is all, maybe you don’t like my ideas but I think it could be a point of departure.
Other pages with information on the Limbic System are:
http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n05/mente/limbic_i.htm
http://www.vexen.co.uk/3/h2.html
Virus Discussion
If it was hungry enough to it would...this could have been a starving Laos demon.
Since it is a Magical virus, the body's natural immune system may not be able to detect it. Although a short bout with a period of "I feel like shit" leading to kitten-biting might be in order, it is more likely to result in magical symptoms...random magical effects for instance ... nocturnal glowing, red-rimmed eyes, forehead bumpiness, spike-growth and other unexplained phenomenon...I refer you to Nikolai's case of slime-allergy. It was very much like a virus attacking the system.
Since a chemical must be transmitted in order to be detected by the sense of smell, lets assume that the virus is airborne. It has a very short (say 15 second) lifespan outside the host, giving an infectious host a danger-zone of about 10-20 feet.
To animals and other non-magicals with a good sense of smell they might percieve a slightly sulpherous odor (appropriate, no?) of the infected.
The Cure...
I would say that it can be cured by tissue cleansing. The virus infects over a period of 8-10 hours wherein it runs rampant through the person's system touching any manaful tissue. It attaches to the tissue, steals the DNA it needs to reproduce (this is how viruses work) , replicates and dies. The toxic by-product of its death is the toxin that affects the Limbic system.
So far so good?
Time will allow the virus to pass out of the system. As damaged tissue is replaced with fresh tissue and the damaged tissue is sloughed off then the person will return to normal. The problem lies in how quickly is tissue replaced...This process could take years.
A generic healing-spell might cleanse all of someone's tissue but this approach is frought with peril... It might remove the very anti-bodies that protect the person from re-infection and any residual active cultures in the person's body would be reactivated and begin to feed on the now-clean mana-filled tissue all over.
Anyone capapble of casting such a spell would be exposing themselves to infection as well.
A vaccination could be developed using the dead cultures, but there is a slight risk of short-term evilness.
In all, accellerated regeneration would seem to be the ansewer here. Something that speads the process of replacing defective tissue quickly. I imagine shapechangers (who change the tissue in their body regularly) would also heal from exposure rapidly (taking only a few weeks where a normal human might take months or an immortal unchanging demon -- who might have extremely slow cellular decay -- might take years)
This explanation is alsoa good justification of why Vampires are such dangerous carriers. The Virus has a host that has no lymphatic system to combat the physical infection. Vamps never replace tissue (they are dead). It has plenty of mana (to keep it animate) and it spreads a noxious cloud of dust (which can be inhaled) when they die. The perfect host as far as the virus is concerned.
Virus Discussion
MORE THOUGHTS...
Continuous infection of Vampires (and any magical being) would result in gradual loss of mana as the mana-filled tissues are infected at greater and greater rates. Eventually leading to a complete drainage of mana.
Since the Virus needs to eat mana-filled tissue to live a complete removal of mana from the host would result in the death of the Virus.
I don't know how this could be accomplished nor if it could be reversed, but if it can it would leave the host protected from re-infection by the anti-bodies in their system.
A vampire completely drained of mana is a corpse...
A demon completely drained of mana is a deformed human (for all intents an purposes)
A werewolf drained is human
A mage drained is human
a half-demon with a human appearance is human
How many months does it take to get to the mana-filled center of a mana-pop? The world may never know....(ask Mr. Owl. It's Three)
More resources:
http://www.biology-online.org/1/9_pathogens.htm
http://www.biology-online.org/1/10_cell_defense.htm
http://www.biology-online.org/1/11_cell_defense_2.htm
Virus Discussion
What are you suggesting Dave? That we cure our characters by draining them of mana? A temporary drainage I suppose, but still… it would leave them unprotected. Although that is very interesting too. :D
Since none of our characters is a complete demon, we would all end up completely human for a while. (an worthy of note option for Alessa who has always wanted to be human)
Of course a virus that not only changes the attitude of the White Hats but also eventually drains them of mana would be very useful to Delancre. It would imply the total extermination of the White Hats.
From what I understood, another possibility is the regeneration of tissue. But since it has to be magical to be quick enough (some of our characters would take forever to heal otherwise) we have to know which of our mages is staying unaffected to be able to perform that magic. Otherwise I don’t know how it could be done.
And using vampires as first carriers would be very plausible of him too.
Killing a vampire makes you inhale some of his dust (Alessa is allergic to that stuff, lol), and if you can’t kill him, at least in a fight you get close enough. That the vampires would be drained of their mana and die eventually Delancre wouldn’t mind.
After that the smell thing could start when Hyde gets into our good guys cells. And of course the White hats are always fighting vampires, the infected ones could be hypnotically bended to look for certain people, like Tash for example, or the wayward Council affiliates that live in LA.
Virus Discussion
Dave, I was assuming normal circumstances rather than say extreme hunger.
Anyway for some more remarks....
While the mana stuff is interesting, I think there is certainly amble evidence of substance dualism in the Buffyverse. We have, at the very least, both physical and mystical 'stuff' with their own persistance conditions. The strongest piece of evidence for this being the fact that Angel has gained and lost his soul multiple times.
I have serious philosophical problems with any dualistic system making mystical stuff necessarily have to rely on physical stuff for its persistance conditions. They could be related where we have a physical-mystical union, but it's not clear why we should assume that destroying one thing should be able to destroy the other. Though I will admit, I can't escape the historical association of magical theory with Platonic metaphysics that survives even to today in Wiccan_magick.
But do like the limbic system things. That does provide a way for the virus to effect changes in dispositions and not necessarily the more mystical elements. So drawing on some of Lou's suggestions....
What we have is a fairly interesting new virus - make it a blend of science and magic. A form of cold of influenza which has been subjected to a special ritual form to provide a mystical 'charge' to the strain. It's a rather weak strain - we get over it rather quickly and feel like shit for a day or two - but there is one crucial change.
It has a 'mystical' element as well which attaches itself to the individual. Only the mystical part requires you to have some potential to be able to influence the limbic system (the mystical acting on the physical).
This also provides a way to cure. Since it it, at heart, a mystical infection there could be some form of ritual cleansing.
Virus Discussion
Ok, i'm gonna come here and put a few cents my self.
First thing i usually don't come out in such intellectual talk cuz most of the time i have nooo clue what everyone is on about, but i tried to read it and understand it. And i have to really compliment on all of your understanding and major compliments to Ally on her research on the Limbic system, which i have to admit was very interesting, and got me thinking that Labn does a lot to improve ones intelectual abilities.
From what i understand the Hyde virus will directly affect the Limbic system so that it can make it repond the way it wants? A person can contract the virus by means of smelling (the idea so far) and from there the virus would go and directly affect the Limbic system. Then does the virus them travel into your blood stream or nervous system affecting your DNA? changing and munipulating it? Especially the mana tissue cells as it was pointed out.
Perhaps rather then looking at the virus as a biological or a organic matter we can look at it two ways: Firstly the Loas demon in Kris's post of given the virus by the means of injection. This would show the virus in liquid and/or organic form. But perhaps we can separate the patient zero, one who has been injected with the virus to the way they are affected, and to the other ones who get the virus from the patient zero....
Ok, i know i can't make my thoughts appear into words clear enough, so i'll try again those of you who maybe confused by my above rambling.....
Ok, has anyone seen Blade 2? In it there was a virus that changed vampires, its not the type of virus or the way it was passed on that i'm interested in but how differently it affected the one who was injected with it and how differently is affect those who got it from the one who was injected it. The ones who got it from the "patient zero" itself just became mindless drone who wanted to fulfil their aim of feeding, while the patient zero himself wasn't more so mindless, and he could also control the mindless drones (i think).
Also, before i continue i am taking an assumtion by saying that those already "evil" are not affected.
So the idea that i'm bringing is that what if Delancre uses one of his "trusted" test species, puts the virus in them, whether they are evil or not, the virus will turn them, and they permanantly contract the virus with no cure. This patient zero will then go about realising an odor through sweat, sputem, urine (ewww), etc. Others in range, those with mana potential would pick up the scent as electronic simulations that go directly to the Limbic, remember Morpheus, touch taste smell are just electronic pulses(?) that travel to your brain. Perhaps in a way the virus can be digital? It send electronic transmissions when picked up by scent, directly to the LImbic, telling it to re-module the DNA tissues?
By the means of cure, the patient zero could be incurable but otheres, infected might be. Perhaps the patient zero may even be able to control them?
Again on the subject of a cure, then i dunno. The idea of mana drainage seems good. That good be part two of Delancre's plan, perhaps there is only one cure and he already knows of it. Thus if the white hats are turned evil and find a cure, a cure would be that which would leave them defensless, perhaps for a temporarily, but it would leave them defense less (evil evil man!!!)....
Perhaps if there is a ritual by which mana can be drained, there can be one where new mana can of injected? Mana transfusion perhaps?
Sorry about the rambling but thats my above two cents, sorry if i overlooked something that was already there....
Virus Discussion
Ok, can I say wow!
The Laos demon for clarification, was indeed infected with a purer strain of the virus, and the version that Delancre actually releases will be modified slightly. Thus, the effects will be slightly different.
I really like the scent idea. Very cool.
As for the cure, I lean towards incorporating the mana loss idea, cause that would work well in the rest of Delancre's plan. Once the virus is cured, he could send in his army and we could be facing the slayer and her legions of demon hybrids without our magic and abilities. That would make for a truly difficult finale. I think it would be awesome, but that's just me.
What about all of you?
Virus Discussion
how cool would that be, a finale where the characters are normal with no superpowers! I think the idea is amazing!
(of course, well Chance, Darian and James would still be suped up, but whateve, someone has to stay strong to fight miss evil slayer, and such....) :lol:
Virus Discussion
What about those characters that are somewhat 'mystical' and therefore affected by the virus, but who have no 'mana' as such? I'm thinking here of Tash (naturally), as well as characters such as Alessa, Jeet, Mantheana, etc.
The one I'm most familiar with is Tash, of course - her psychic abilities count her as able to be affected, but she has no innate magic ability. I would imagine that the "mana loss" should probably affect her psychic gifts as well. So to cure her of being evil Tash, she has to lose the use of her innate talents for a time (one would hope that they return over time...). :)
Virus Discussion
After reading what Dave wrote and talking with Adam, I guess that both the aspects of physical/mystical could be covered. The virus has a physical carrier (we still have to decide which or who will it be) that could transmit a form of cold.
I liked this, a physical virus to all, but to those with mystical quality something more. By that “mystical charge” mystical creatures would be affected by the other aspect of the virus, the one that affects the Limbic.
Viruses probably have odor for all we know, but our olfactory sense simply is not configured to pick it up. However Hyde 232 could be configured with a mystical odor that only mystical characters could pick up. That could be the “charge” that Adam mentioned.
All get the cold, only the mystical get the limbic issue.
However, after the mystical serves like a sort of selector of the victims, once it gets to our characters it becomes completely physical again, since the limbic system is physical and its changes are too.
Now about the cure.
If the virus affects us in a physical way, the only cure we need would be physical, that means the regeneration of tissue Dave proposed. However, the other option, the depleting of mana, has very interestings side effects that I think most of us want to explore, so let’s try to find a way for this to work.
Sorry if I’m taking so long, and repeat things, but I’m trying to think and I seem to do it better if I write at the same time. :oops:
The virus makes people get a cold, but has an odor that makes our characters also develop problems in their limbic system. Those problems could begin like serious cases of pms (I think all of us have experienced this, either in our bodies or those of our partners) but go steadily getting worse. So it starts physical and by a mystical way it affects our characters limbic system (a physical system too, even if it affects emotions and behaviour).
So the mana is only used to be able to pick up the second part of the virus. Why would we need to deplete their mana if this is the case?
My only thought is that we could still be emanating a smell that keeps on affecting our limbic and gets steadily worse as days go by. The smell isn’t strong enough after a couple of days to affect anybody else but its strong enough to keep us reinfecting ourselves. This continuous attack on our limbic systems makes its effects increasingly strong.
If it is the mana in us that makes us able to pick that smell, then only by eliminating that factor we would be able to get to the second fase of the cure, the regeneration of tissues. I don’t think any of our evil characters would like to be cured, they wont be emotionally bended to collaborate with the other characters, like a vampire is not bended on having his soul back.
This way, there would be a mana depleting/regeneration of tissue solution, for both the mystical/physical aspects of the virus.
Now about the mana depleting possibilities. (And I know I’m taking a lot of your time, but my muses are up, like Adam says.:D)
I want to say that i like the idea of a finale with our characters deprived of mana, that isnt the same as saying that they are powerless.
I can't imagine a Tash powerless, her physical prowess would still be the same, the same with Jeet, Nikolai, Jesse, Daye and all the human characters we have. For those less human, like Alessa, well she may not have her demon strength, but her training and fighting skills would still be there. Same with the npc like Darlome, Vincent or Jessy. (sorry don’t know what the case would be with Tarix, is she a fighter? :oops:)
Of course we already know that Chance, Darian and James wont be affected, so they wont lose their powers. Reah doesn’t have mana, that I know, so she wont be either, same case with Galen.
Some of our pc or npc may never acquire the virus, for example I wont contaminate Inés.
And some will be affected and really lost their powers, and get defenseless, like Kate or Cole.
However, all in all the White Hats will still be a force to be reckoned on. Buffy got to save the world time and again with much less than what we will have in that finale, evil slayer or not. (evil or misguided, Kris?)
What concerns me is the time that it will take for them to regain their lost mana. Kris said something about taking some time, the longer the stronger their powers were. That is a little frightening to me, how long would it take for Kate to return to her powers? or Tash? Because we will have another mid-season after this one and as soon as the occult world knows of their powerlessness the whole underworld will struck on them. I guess most of our characters have made quite an enemy in their lives.
Although that could make an interesting midseason at the same time, each trying to get on their lives without the powers they took for granted before, and getting to grow in power slowly until getting their old strength back for the 5th season. :D
Don’t know, just throwing some ideas. :D (wow, two pages of ideas, my muses really were up this afternoon ;))
Virus Discussion
You can say she is, but like Jessy i guess the virus affecting her should take her powers away, though she'll still have the skill...
Virus Discussion
Hehe, nope! definately not. all her special abilities are artificial (aside from that skill factor) so not even the virus would be able to take away that, because they aren't even biological! well... except for perhaps the bioware that enhances her strength... though that's like artificial tissue so i'm not sure wether or not that could be effected... oh wait... no! it wouldn't be *slaps head* bloody hell! i swear! i have to be the biggest nuff-nuff alive! her strength isn't mystical or mana linked, so she couldn't loose it.
*looks at hole*
i should probably just stay in there, right? :P hehe
Virus Discussion
Removing Mana and How to Restore it:
1) Mana is a term we have adopted for this discussion to mean "mystical properties" it isn't a term in common parlance among the characters or NPCs (yet)
2) The mystical properties aren't consistent. Psychic abilities, magical spells, and shapechanging are vastly different mechanisms that are "powered" by mana but use different processes.
3) Using one's abilites a lot uses up the mana. That is why spellcaster's feel "drained" and phychics get fatigued (although they used no muscles), and demons can be "weakened" even if they have not exerted themselves.
4) to remove mana you would have to "paralyze" the mana sources. It's like muscular energy. That is derived from food energy which is converted into muscular energy. Mana energy seems to come from another source (faith? practice? food? not sure).
Even if you feed someone they have muscular potential but you can block their ability to utilize it by applying a spinal block or using drugs to paralyze the nerves from activating them.
5) It may be possible to use drugs that "parylize" the mystical properties of individuals...To wit:
in Season 2 of Buffy, Giles uses a drug on Buffy that "blocks" her Slayer Powers. Giles describes it as "an organic compound... of muscle
relaxants and adrenal suppressers. The effect is temporary. You'll be
yourself again in a few days." The "organic compund" could have mystical blocking properties as well.
6) The effects on Buffy were temporary, her powers began to return after "a few days". In the Case of the PCs it would be neccessary to drug them long enough to allow the "Hyde flu" to heal normally before they could be taken off the drugs...say 2 weeks tops.
Virus Discussion
Uhm...actually, I had a sort of different idea. I think Hyde 232 is actually a completely dual natured construct. It's a virus with mana of it's own, so it has a physical and mystical element. The idea I want to get across here is that it works in two cooperative, but different ways. The physical virus attacks the limbic system as we've already stated. This causes the individual to lose their natural or ingrained inhibitions. On the other front, the mana virus attacks the psyche or anima of the individual, corrupting their existing mana and causing them to be influenced to despicable behavior. The first part of the virus is fairly quick, the physical thus occurs rather suddenly, but the mana virus is more insidious. This means that as the mana is slowly corrupted, the individual becomes more and more "evil". Thus we have the opportunity to slowly build up to more and more heinous acts as our pcs grow more and more "infected".
If this is the case, the cure will have to be two fold as well. We will have to come up with a chemical compound and also a mystical ritual to cleanse he nervous system and purge the corrupted mana.
Virus Discussion
Yes, I definitely like this idea. It allows the changes to be gradual - and, within the story, we can write our characters doing stuff that's borderline and people might wonder if we're infected or whether we're just treading the grey line... :wink:
Virus Discussion
I am still leaning towards a solution that is already known but may not be the obvious answer...holy water or fasting on nothing but unleavened bread. Baptism or a purification through a ritual of unction.
It seems to me that mana is as much a part of who the person is as much as it flows from from them. So the 'cleansing' may have to be specific to the faith of the person.
Why all the trouble? you may ask...(go ahead...ask)
Becasue the nature of this virus feels like it should be that it's simple to put down but is hard to cure...just as there are hundreds (if not thousands) of kinds of people with mana...there is an equal number of solutions to the total cure of the disease.
You can kill the physical disease, but the mystical aspects linger on and may not have a one-cure-fits-all solution. "Go and sin no more" isn't going to cut it after the lymbic system is restored...some people may choose to ignore the little voice telling them it's wrong.
Hyde 232 is the perfect name for this bug. It also has two natures...a rational, scientific one that can be cured with a mega dose of drugs and a few days of bed rest ... and the more seductive and less noticeable part of twisting the mind and being to a thing of evil.
Yes I like the symmetry:
Two symptoms .. obvious (odor) and subtle (behavior).
Two vectors ... mystical and physical.
Two cures ... Chemical and Spiritual.
It has an elegant evilness about it, wouldn't you say Ambrose?
Virus Discussion
Absolutely Diabolical ... per Lord Delancre...
So, there should be a mystical cure that is tailored to the individual say? Interesting. What, then, are your thoughts on the "powerless" finale?
Virus Discussion
Humm everything sounds great so far but I have a few questions that apply mostly to my specific character...
Was any Silver perhaps used in the creation of this virus, im doubting it but it is of Special relevance to my character so I thought I should ask.
Its a mystical virus as is Lycanthropy, so is it possibly that the Lycanthropy itself may help Blackthorn recover faster or even perhaps supress the symptoms to a degree where he would be less than evil, but not exactly good until he is fully cured?
It was already mentioned that Shapeshifters may recover more quickly, but my Character is Werewolf meaning though he can shapeshift he can only do so the way he can because he has been trained to basicly control his inner 'beast'. This might effect the virus in one of two possible ways... would the virus suppress the beast completely or would it over ride Blackthorns mental controls and give the beast full control?
Just thought I should ask before things with this get going.
Virus Discussion
Hmm... come to think of it, its most likely that Blackthorn's werewolf within him will repel the virus. I wouldn't think silver would be in it, since Delancre would most likely want the werewolves on his side. He wouldn't want to kill them.
But those are just my thoughts...
Virus Discussion
Alright, midseason's almost over and we need to come to who's staying good and who's treading on the dark side (both PCs and NPCs).
For my characters:
Adriana= Bad
Dominika= Good
Virus Discussion
Well, I'm not sure we need to actually state that here - it can be played out as we go. People can write red herrings (eg, they get a cold for a couple of days, so the other players (not characters) think they have the virus - but it really was just a cold). People can have the initial symptoms occur off-camera, so nobody knows they have the virus... that sort of thing.
Actions can then become ambiguous and nobody's quite sure who's on which side - much as happens in reality (or in very good tv shows like Buffy where such stuff is often left unknown until towards the end).
This also allows people to change their minds mid-stream. They may start out thinking they want to go bad, then decide that they'll stay good after we're into the story a bit. A big part of this game is its malleability. Sure, for the main season plotlines we have an idea of what the Big Bad is and what it's going to do in broad terms, but the specifics are always up to individual players.
So please don't feel it's necessary to blurt out to everyone how you're planning to go in Season Four. Go bad if you want to go bad, stay good if you want to stay good. It's up to you. :) As is, of course, the way in which any changes are manifested.
Virus Discussion
the mid season is ending...oh dear...when exactly does it come to an end...cause i have a lot that i need to get over with, getting all this prophecy thing about tarix done and over with, tying up the loose ends...that sort of things...when in real and game board time does it end...
Virus Discussion
You'll note the dates for the MidSeason is on the heading of the topic. MidSeason Three's dates are 1 Nov 2006 to 28 Feb 2007. Which means that Season Four starts on 1 March 2007... and given that our real time start dates and our game time start dates always coincided, that means that Season Four is starting on 1 March 2004 real time (for 2007 game time).
That does give us one extra day of writing, since 2004 is a leap year whereas 2007 is not. So we'll be starting Season Four on Monday. :)
MidSeason Three will probably stay open for a week or two beyond its closing date, but it's definitely time to be getting your character as close to the end of February as possible.
Virus Discussion
that gives me *looks at calender...counts on fingers...finally uses a calculator* A WEEK!!! 8O oh meep *quickly heads to microsoft word and ferociously starts typing*
Virus Discussion
Which won't be a problem so long as certain people *looks at Matt and Kris* get their stuff put up so I can post this damn Solstice post!!! :x Did I mention I have NINE FINISHED POSTS all waiting to go up?? Did I? Did I? :evil:
Virus Discussion
...
You're waiting for me to do what now?
I have stuff to put up? I wasn't aware I had stuff to put up...
Virus Discussion
Oh right, that stuff. I had completely forgotten. At least, I think that's it...
Virus Discussion
Great stuff Matt... One down, One to go... :twisted:
Virus Discussion
Ok, I have some stuff I'm working on to get set up for the Ambrose story and the virus. I will have that all up by Sunday. And I will also be posting a kind of addendum to Delancre's profile. I just want to detail his attitude, plans, and goals, so everyone is on the same page. Look for that soon. Thanks. (I'm so excited!)
Virus Discussion
heh heh-heh.... heh
8O
*follows in Saadia's example*
Virus Discussion
Okay, per Ally’s “request” (that’s what we’re calling it now:)) I’m going to post my take on the whole virus discussion:
From my understanding, the Hyde virus works both physiologically and magically causing such physical reactions as nausea, fevers, hives .etc. This is true in people with and without mana, the symptoms lasting as long as a ‘normal’ viral infection i.e. the common cold and this is the virus’ gestation period. However, in individuals with mana, the virus’ magical nature is somehow activated causing it to feed on the mana (thereby depleting it) and in the process of its reproduction creates a toxin that 1. Creates a scent by which the virus spreads (essentially airborne) and 2. Affects the limbic system causing the infected person to lose his/her inhibitions i.e. behavior is no longer controlled by morals. For the biological aspect to be cured, the infected tissue must be replaced, although this happens normally i.e. the body healing itself, it cannot occur fast enough to fight the virus effectively except in shape-changers who’s special brand of mana makes the virus unable to ‘keep up’ with its rate of reproduction. In others the tissue must be healed magically by removing all mana and making the individual non-magical for the time it takes the virus to leave the person’s body. To cure the Magical symptoms some sort of spiritual ritual must take place to remove the virus and reinforce the person’s weakened mana.
Okay, I hope I got that right. Now moving on (let me know if I’m being redundant… also if I’m over-thinking things…):
1. How does the virus detect mana? The energy/aura surrounding those with a magical nature has a higher/different frequency than those without; the resonance activates the magical part of the virus when it is already inside the host.
2. How does it affect the limbic system? It inhibits temporal lobe functioning, causing the person to rely on the amygdala that is relatively ‘primitive’ in its reactions i.e. very emotional and instinctive. Usually people with temporal lobe damage experience (only listing the pertinent ones) aggressive impulses, fear, dissociative identity disorder (multiple-personality), sexual arousal and lack of control.
3. What sort of scent is created? Since the virus is affecting the brain, instead of it creating a toxin as it dies it could cause the brain to produce pheromones. It would only be detectable by those with mana i.e. non-magical people wouldn’t be able to smell it. As with sex-hormones, these pheromones could attract those who can smell it i.e. the virus’ way of ensuring its survival. Since the body is self-maintaining, the production of the hormones would stop after a certain period of time, as an overdose would have adverse affects on the body and that would defeat the virus’ purpose anyway.
4. What would stop the virus? The virus works by using the mana to reproduce itself, once the mana is gone there is nothing to work with and the virus dies, but by that time the person is left completely without magic. This could be what Delancre wants to make those who would oppose him, powerless. Here, we would only have to let the virus run its course but while it is doing that the person would still be unhinged. **Or** if Delancre would rather have the uninhibited people to bring over to the ‘dark side’ the virus could work in a cyclic reaction i.e. self perpetuating, whatever it produces would go back and continually feed the reaction ensuring that it remained in the person. As more time passed, the affects of the virus would become more concentrated i.e. the individual would slowly behave increasingly immoral/inconsciousable. In this case, the contaminated tissue/mana would have to be magically/ritually replaced and it would lead to the same outcome: powerless good guys.
Anyway, that might make some semblance of sense. It’s only 11:22pm so I have no excuse except that I had 4 hours of sleep last night… and the night before. And the night before that most likely. I’d love to get feedback, please~ Thanks
Virus Discussion
That's all pretty much exactly what I'm thinking for the virus. As for the "cure" it's the second one I have in mind, because Ambrose is hoping to "turn" all of us to his side. He is aware, however, that if we manage to discover the cure, we will be left without mana and have to replenish it naturally. He is counting on one of these things happen, either way effectively wiping out resistance when he comes with his army to claim Maia and start his takeover of the world.
Does that make sense?
Also, we will need a magic user who is capable of figuring out how to cleanse the infected of their mana, and Daye will be infected. Just throwing that monkey wrench out there. I don't know what Lou is planning for Kate.
Virus Discussion
I would actually like Yolanda, Adriana's grandmother, to be the one tto cleanse the bad mana. Yolanda is very powerful in the dark arts, and has been practicing for over 40 years. I also think that she really wouldn't be infected, since her long practice of it has created a natural immunity for her.
Just some thoughts...
Virus Discussion
I'd be inclined to say that long practice of the magical arts wouldn't necessarily invoke an immunity - in fact, the more powerful a person's mana levels, the more material the virus would have to work with. However, viruses are very rarely 100% contagious so it's quite feasible that some people are exposed to it but fail to catch it, and Yolanda could easily be one of those. :) Some people may even catch it to the extent that they show the physical 'cold' symptoms, but the mana-conversion part of Hyde 232 fails to activate, or is fought off by the person's immune system before it gets fully established.
What I'm more interested in is the effect the loss of mana would have once the cure is effected. Imagine someone like Darian, who's only alive because he is linked to the dark fae... drop his mana levels to zero and he starts to age to his true age of 200+. Nasty... :twisted: Better hope the virus is purged from his system fast, before he dies of old age.
Virus Discussion
Still, I would like Yolanda to be the one to do the cleansing. If it is alright with everyone else... :D
Virus Discussion
I don't see an issue with Yolanda doing it, myself. I don't care who works the cure, so long as someone does. Can you imagine Season 5 LABN with 3/4 of the cast evil? :lol: We'd have to change the name of the game...
Virus Discussion
I can. Read Season 3.
Let's see; Chance, Darian, Jade, James, Ellie...
Virus Discussion
Hey now, Matt, no one likes a smart ass :wink:
Btw, I would think it would be more around 1/4 of the cast that went bad Season 3.
Virus Discussion
I have quite definate plans for Kate for Season Four, but I've left them in such a manner that she will still be open to be involved in the overall storyline - the more the better actually. And at the moment I've no plans for her to contract the Hyde virus - in fact I think The Ministry would be inclinded to protect her because they need her unaffected for their plans. I'm not saying much about what's going on, otherwise it'd ruin the surprise - plus it'll be pretty much obvious once Season Four begins. But I would like her to be involved in the season finale (especially since all her mana will be intact). So there's a good chance that she'll be able to help in the cleansing.
Virus Discussion
Talking about plans...i have just a few teensy weeny plans for tarix for the begining of season 4, but i would really like to collab more and have her meet other ppl...so come on ppl USE TARIX!!!!! tell me when you wanna collab and i'd be happy too....i mean i had sooo much collabing planned for mid season 3 but non of it could come into effect...i'm sure Tarix can fit in somehow!!!
Virus Discussion
Yes, yes, yes!!! I am all for using Yolanda to cleanse the mana, and Kate can assist. This would be a major magical undertaking, and we should try and think of how to deal with things like darian (if he contracts the virus) or anyone else who needs their mana for survival...any ideas?
Also, happy to use Tarix. She's a demon, is she going to contract hyde, and if not, well, there will definitely be more than one group interested in stopping Ambrose and his army, so...
Virus Discussion
Actually...i have a feeling she might....oh plans plans plans...but first finish off mid season...soon i promise...it'll all be laid out...
Virus Discussion
On the matter of Darian...
The lack of magic in a magical being isn't fatal, but it does render them inert. So a fey drained of mana would be comatose, but its life would continue. So Darian won't just drop dead...but he will start to age.
It will likely be slow at first...a year a day. But as time progresses it will accellerate to as much as a year an hour until he reaches his full age. And once his mana is restored and his longevity restarted he will still be aged...so that will need to be reversed.
The lack of mana in an undead makes that undead a corpse. An AWARE corpse, but unable to move or act. But that is a moot point since they are 1) Already evil and 2) have no living tissue to contract the virus.
It might not be a good idea to tell every other player if you plan to be good or evil at this stage. It might be more interesting to have it slowly come out over the course of the season.
Virus Discussion
*points to her bold'd might above* Hence thats why i mighted Tarix perhaps might, in a way, could be, or maybe not be having the virus.... Yes...i know, i'm a living nightmare for a Grammer Nazi....sorry Heather...i know you go through hell after every game post i make.....
Virus Discussion
Ally and I were just talking about Season 4 when the question of "how long with the pcs/npcs have the virus?" came up.
Now, I've been figuring it lasts about 2-3 months, which seems logical since they will be powerless in the season finale. The amount of time they are infected is imortant in my playing of events.